shooting sound with a non-blimped camera

[seekaee]

Hey everyone, I have a plan that I would like your opinion on.

In the next month or so I?m going to shoot a live action short with a non-blimped, crystal-synched,16mm Camera that?s as loud as a small chainsaw. Normally, when you up against odds like this you might as well turn your project into a silent movie. However?I think I have an idea that just might work.

For every scene with the actors I will shoot and record a good number of takes on video and then afterwards I?ll shoot the ?master? takes on film. Once the film is digitized and am ready to begin editing on my computer. I?ll take the best of the dialog from the video sessions and mix it with the 16mm footage.

I know there?s much easier ways of doing this but it?s just that I have no choice. Still, I feel this way might work better then simply shooting the scene first and having the actors talk into a tape recorder afterwards, like Robert Rodriguez did on El Mariachi.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.




[This message has been edited by seekaee (edited January 23, 2002).]

[MovieStuff]

Actually, what you are describing is a very practical way of handling sound. It's used a lot in commercials and feature films. People have a way of talking, a pattern in how they say things. When you shoot someone saying the same thing several times, it is surprising how accurate that dialog will fit onto another take altogether. If the actors are well rehearsed, stick to the script and aren't talking extemporaneously, I think it is a good plan and beats jumping through hoops trying to silence your camera, which never really works anyway.

You go, boy-eeee.

Roger

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Roger Evans
MovieStuff
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html

[Matt Pacini]

Hi.
Roger is mucho experienced, and has his way of doing things, and I have my way.

I would agree, that it's a bitch to silence a noisy camera, but it's not easy to sync up dialog that wasn't the actual dialog of the take, in my opinion.

This is even more of a problem, the less experienced the actors are, because inexperienced actors, in my experience, unfortunately give vastly different performances once they are aware the camera is actually running!
And if the camera is noisy, they are going to be VERY aware of when it's on, and when it's off!
I call it the deer in the headlights method of acting.

I can't give you an ideal remedy, because I think no matter what you do, you're going to have problems here.
I think I would advise trying to blimp the camera AND doing what you're talking about.
That way you'll have everything.

P.S. What camera are you shooting with?

Matt Pacini

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[rollemfilm]

i would suggest the ADR route. just replace the actual audio in the studio with newly recorded audio. the actors listen to the location sound and mimic word for word what was and how it was said with the "sync" footage. but, make sure you get plenty of ambient sound!! lots of it. you'll need this in the mix. but, blimping is still the best bet.

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[Matt Pacini]

I would suspect that most people shooting Super 8, and who are asking questions like he did on this board, can't afford many dozens of hours rental fee in a post production studio to do ADR.

If you really want to do this, call some studios and get prices.
I think you will immediately abandon the idea and seek some of the other options mentioned.
ADR is EXPENSIVE and time consuming.

Matt Pacini

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[mattias]

walking in with the mic close gives you *much* better audio than a boom mic outside the frame does. do you really need to shoot the video? for my latest short, i recorded the sound of the rehearsals, with the mic closer up, and it's great to have when the sync sound is too noisy.

/matt

[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Pacini:
I would suspect that most people shooting Super 8, and who are asking questions like he did on this board, can't afford many dozens of hours rental fee in a post production studio to do ADR.

ADR is EXPENSIVE and time consuming.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Come on, Matt. No one has to (or should!) use a studio to record sound that is supposed to sound like it was recorded in a normal room. Like every other skill related to making movies, looping is difficult for some and easy for others but it is never expensive for the low budget producer.

I won't get into another debate with you over this but I think your singular experience on Lost Tribes doesn't set the parameters for what others will encounter at all. Looping is one of the most powerful tools a low budget film maker has and, like all disciplines associated with the film making experience, is a skill that has to be learned and, most importantly, SHOULD be learned because no matter how big the budget will be on a production, looping will be used at some point. In fact, looping can literally cut a budget in half by saving on location time and personel costs.

To say that it shouldn't be used because it is hard to do is like saying films should be shot by available light because grip trucks and DPs are expensive and who can afford them? Certainly using additional lights and looping are both "artificial" in every sense of the word and neither is particularly convenient. It's just something you learn how to do if you want to make movies.

People remember bad lighting and bad looping. Otherwise, you never notice it.

Roger

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Roger Evans
MovieStuff
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html

[seekaee]

Hehe.I?m glade this post a has taking off so well

Matt, I?m not to worried about the actors, as all of them are well experienced (one of the advantages of living in Los Angeles) I think for them it will be easier to adjust to the noise of the film camera after they done a number of ?warm up? takes on video. Most actors-especially ones who have done theatre and movies-are use to working in ?uncomfortable ? environments. Even before we start shooting they will be well prepared and understand how things are going to be done.

I?d love to work in a studio but I just can?t afford it. However, if I have to do any looping I?ll probably do it at my music guys place as He has a small studio with a G4 equipped with protools.( my own home system is a Pen 4 2.0 gighertz with a gig of ram and a 1.2 terrabite drive and XP pro as the O/S. For editing I?ll be using either Premiere 6.0 or ( if im lucky) Avid DV Express.

The camera will either be a Beaulieu R16 or a Krasnogorsk-3. Both have crystal sync motors.The video camera will be an XL1

The one thing I am a little worry about is if none of the recorded dialog fits with the actor?s performance on film I might have to try reassembling (I.e. cut and paste) it as a new audio track. Has anyone ever had to do this? I?m sure it?s a real nightmare.





[This message has been edited by seekaee (edited January 24, 2002).]

[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by seekaee:

The one thing I am a little worry about is if none of the recorded dialog fits with the actor?s performance on film I might have to try reassembling (I.e. cut and paste) it as a new audio track. Has anyone ever had to do this? I?m sure it?s a real nightmare.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, you WILL have to cut and paste sentences, even if things fit like they are supposed to. There's no way that the audio for an entire take is going to match. But all the audio is in order of appearance, so it really isn't a nightmare; just a matter of spacing and is easier than looping. And I think Mattias' idea of getting in closer with a mic during the video takes is good. Much better audio and there is no need for the mic to be out of the frame. In fact, you could even use lapel mics in full view.

But, again, you will be cutting and pasting quite a bit but it can work fine. It wasn't that difficult doing it with mag track on a moviola and is even easier on the computer.

Roger

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Roger Evans
MovieStuff http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html

[This message has been edited by MovieStuff (edited January 24, 2002).]

[seekaee]

I always thought this would be a major problem afterwards. I feel relieved.

Thanks Roger


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